The Nonintuitive Bits

Social Effects of Upcoming Technology - Episode 8

January 22, 2020 Viacheslav Kovalevskyi, Zain Rizvi, and Sandeep Krishnamurthy Season 1 Episode 8
The Nonintuitive Bits
Social Effects of Upcoming Technology - Episode 8
Foldable Devices
Recurring Cycles in Tech
Consequences of Nutrition Tech
Advertising in Self Driving Cars
The Human Touch
The Nonintuitive Bits
Social Effects of Upcoming Technology - Episode 8
Jan 22, 2020 Season 1 Episode 8
Viacheslav Kovalevskyi, Zain Rizvi, and Sandeep Krishnamurthy

CES raised many questions about the future of society and our talk took many tangents. Topics discussed included recurring cycles in tech, optimizing for the wrong metrics, advertising with self driving cars, unintended consequences of AI-based makeup products, and wanting the human touch

Show Notes Transcript Chapter Markers

CES raised many questions about the future of society and our talk took many tangents. Topics discussed included recurring cycles in tech, optimizing for the wrong metrics, advertising with self driving cars, unintended consequences of AI-based makeup products, and wanting the human touch

Sandeep:   0:00
If you really want to be a very successful entrepreneur, starting a company, go back 20 years and see what actually worked or failed at the time and try to see it is relevant now, because most of the times history repeats.  

Sandeep:   0:30
Hello, everyone. Welcome back. And this is episode 8 on tech stuff. I am Sandeep. And I am with with my awesome buddies Zain and Slava. Zain!

Zain:   0:42
Hey, guys, glad to be back here

Sandeep:   0:45

Slava:   0:47
Hello, everyone. I think I have not missed any off our previous episodes. What, by the way, the same is not applicable for our today's host.  

Sandeep:   0:58
Okay, The topic that

Zain:   1:00
I don't think that's quite right. Think there was one episode with me and Sandeep

Sandeep:   1:05
Really, really think he missed it, but we actually canceled at the last moment. Let's not record it. And once lies no evidence, no evidence, no guest Lava. It's fine. Great. Going good. After Nance, you're going to get 100 of 100 in your exams. We're going to get dressed. Okay, let's get started. So the topic I have chosen today is a consumer electronics show. It happened between Jan. 7 to 10. Till last. Rikers on dhe. It is an exciting time for a lot off geeks who is in world with the gadgets on funky technologies as well as a lot of usable things as well. Since that happened very recently and personally, I'm kind of like a person who follows the scattered Sze new upcoming technology's future stick ideas and concepts, and also a lot of things that's going to change the baby lead over life usually. But I'm not a expert in going very deep into comparison like microprocessor level. So bear me if I make any mistakes in specifications are going too deep in the technologies. But I'm a good user, are observant off this technology, So let's get started with that. You start with C s stands for Consumer Electronics show Ah, funky. We'd give across, which was interesting, a person said. Should we call it Consumer electronic show? Or should we can't call it a concept exports show that is the kind off interesting things. Usually these companies use this as a platform to expose or to show their concept idea, starting from flying cars starting from like, say, something like robots, which can wash your mutant cells, which can make additional this can cook. So there are a lot of interesting ideas that gets shown here.

Zain:   3:09
Maybe I'll F. E s future electronics show.

Sandeep:   3:12
Yeah, that's an interesting name, too. I think if the organizer's off CSR listening, they're definitely consider it for the future. Yeah, So have kind off organized the eye items that I found interesting. There were lots and lots of show. More than 25. 30,000 people attended hundreds of companies. Exports over here, not there, but we're not going toe covered. Every single thing. But a few of the things that I found interesting. And we can actually categorize the trends that happened to the show. One of the main trench we actually saw the CIA studios and 20 Waas Ford Every devices, which is getting more and more popular. Do you guys remember the motor razor phone? Which is kind of like first four devil slower. I see a lot of exactement the new ledge to get stuck with you. Have you used that for you? A crazy fan or you're like, in my heart about it. But what is that? What is that story? But I do see that your large Exactly.

Slava:   4:17
That was the apple. That was the phone. Like you. Like you never leave the nineties if he didn't want the razor. Sorry. Okay. I actually don't know. Looks nineties thousands, But I think it was 2000 already. But that was the form, like everyone wanted that form. I am not entirely sure there was the more more popular than that one. And yeah, I also wanted it. By the way, I never had it like I never had it. I didn't have money. And, you know, it was I was not that I reached now, but there was poor Ukrainian Ukrainian student, I think, or even even the school when they just released it. And that was that was the dream. And I'm looking on the bright stack of this phone that they just can't get released. Like, No way. No way. Way. By the way, someone listen this and want to give me a gift. That would be no way I'm gonna spend my mind in these, But I have no shame this. Then you have your money? Yeah. Exactly.

Sandeep:   5:26
Like decades ago, there was this foldable motor is a phone the question list, which was a crazy hit on definitely far ahead of its time when it got invented on, uh I think the four separate devices are coming back to fashion now, and also it's morally mostly because after usable like, I need to use my laptop. But can I actually make it more portable? Andi, can I make the keyboard kind of predictable and portable? Can I actually fold the computer and use it like a tab? Can actually expand my mobile and use it like a tab. So there are lots and lots of the right ease off usage fragments, so we do need it. See lot off foldable devices being export. Lenovo had something called us. Lana watching Fat X one Ford. It has a detachable keyboard and it is rated as one off GPAs announcement off the CIA. Sure, and I think it's priced around $2500

Zain:   6:23
and that one was really interesting because just put my I have ah, little X one yoga. And so I really enjoyed that. This computer. It is really nice, solid piece of hardware, but if it's possible to kind of just fold it up in half one more time, I Actually I don't know if, like folding it up in half one where time would make much of a difference. It's It's cool from an idea point of view, but not that I think about it. If I fold it up one more time, it still won't fit in by any of my pockets. I'll still have to put in my backpack, so I just lose the weight of keyboard potentially. But

Sandeep:   6:58
how do you think about, say, for example, maybe you're thinking from development perspective recording, which is about 80% 90% before time. How about you think about like, say, not taking our something about what? Crossing text, excel and use about even watching a streaming video going and sitting in a coffee show or attending lots of meetings. If you think about these use cases, what do you think that's your perspective? Changes before the devices?

Zain:   7:23
Well, because the laptop already has a small enough form factor that it's easy to take it wherever I want to go. It sometimes might be nice if I'm just relaxing on the sofa to read and browse the Internet. Okay, Hey, maybe if it was a little bit smaller, like iPad size that might be more convenient from time to time, though with the yoga, I can fool that completely backwards, so I do effectively get just a screen. It just doesn't pull. The screen doesn't fold, but I have effectively the full screen. So and it's a touchscreen. I can write on it with a stylist. Stylist comes built in, which is super nice, so I don't actually know if I would ever use the extra full. Now that I think about it was I was really excited when I first started. But now that I think about it, I don't know if I would use that fold because it would be useful if I could fold it to the size where it would fit in my pocket. So I don't I didn't carry it in my backpack, But that's not where the technology is right now. Maybe in the future it will be,

Sandeep:   8:23
Yeah, but I'd be just like projecting on the air. That's all right. It's about as we have seen in the movies. Yeah, good,

Zain:   8:30
yeah, but until it gets to that size, where I can stick it in my pocket, I ATT. Leased for a laptop I don't know, a folding. It would make that big of a deal for phones being able to unfold, fold your phone and get a bigger screen. Um, like Motorola, I think, was Motorola that had that. That was a pretty nice idea, because then you can do more stuff on a bigger screen. You can have more information and do more things with that. But making a laptop just half a small down to the size of, ah ipad type device e don't know if that would really change any of my work clothes.

Sandeep:   9:07
What do you think about this? It's a very interesting perspective from saying

Slava:   9:11
I actually okay, so my my view is is ah, similar, but from the different angles. So when they looking, the first introduction of social such funds is a razor. This was in the time when we actually didn't care that much about about the hardware of the form and operating system off the phone, for example. No one cares how much mean *** or how far CPR memory had in riser. I don't remember. I didn't do any of them about that. I just I just like it. So the actual key feature was to have a unique phone with very strange, unique shapes, forms, visuals. It was probably the same Symbian, Wes or Customs immunise from Motorola bags. And I don't remember. And then at some 10.3 things happened in the industry. Everyone shifted from from the hard work, have unique, harder to actually have the fastest Hardwar and has the best operating system for the phone. And there was, like, approximately 56 years where everyone was measuring gearheads. I do remember. Still, I still remember Speed of the galaxy s one. I still remember the speed of the first nexus. Um, so he doesn't remember all that start because we actually cared. And now we actually coming back again to the state where I don't care about the harder. I don't remember this speed of my CPU. I remember Speed of the first galaxy ass and that stupid and remember speed of my current iPhone. I don't care. It just works fast enough like I don't have any more problems with the speed. I don't have any more problems with memory. So the applications no crashing. As I do remember what's happening with my nok. I sort of E 71 which, like constantly, was floating my ops because there was no memory. Sure. Now, in this interesting state, we're no longer in fighting for best common us fast. The CB use a lot of from We now actually start finding again the unique harder that will distinguish you from the competitors and looks like Ford abilities one of them. By the way, this is far from a new concept. When I joined YouTube like a King in 2015 on Draw, it already have introduced I B I for foldable devices. There was no such devices on the market by the interviews concept of these flu in transition from smaller screen to a bigger screen. And it took them like the market five years. So effectually reflect, by the way I actually very, very surprised because the search thing that happened in the market at some point someone realized that you can watch adult movies on the phone and the screen start getting bigger, bigger and bigger and bigger and foldable for multiple configuration to make it even bigger. Little looks like reasonable next step for these for these race, but for some reasons, is happening online now? Um, yeah, Here's my perspective. I don't know what to do with you. Have an

Zain:   12:06
interesting point that there are a lot of tech cycles that we seem to be going through. Just in general were you start off with, like things going in one direction thin. The cycle shifts to a different thing. And then, like after a while, you come back to the first origin, and then you go back to the 2nd 1 as well. It's like it's a repeating loop, even like how we came from having a central server, which everyone runs their stuff on having individual servers everybody has in their home, then back to everyone's running stuff on the cloud, not her individual work pre sees and then going back to EJ computing and again EJ like individual servers or worse stuff gets done. So,

Sandeep:   12:41
yeah, I've always heard, I think I remember, if I remember correctly chosen one off my Combinator class. If you really want to be a very successful entrepreneur starting a company, go back 20 years and see what actually worked or fail at the time and try to see if it is 11 hours because most of the times history. So, like that, I totally agreement board sign said. A lot of things are getting kindof like this. I cannot repeat it in a better way with whatever next at once spent, that happened. But if you actually dive, beat the world concept is something that happened in the past, and it's kind of like the cycling and the looping. Yeah,

Zain:   13:20
and one of the interesting things like what seems to be causing these loops toe happen is that when one thing is becoming populated with the with the phones, people were focusing started focusing on the speed of the hardware and the CPU. That was because APS were getting constrained by the CPU limitations. That was like a limiting factor for what APS could do. And now the CP has gone up to the point where it does not constrain what abstruse, Just like what's lava was saying. Your phone is good enough on the speed wise. So suddenly making your phone like even 10 times faster is no longer different. Treating factor and other stuff that the phone could do becomes differentiating now once phones air suddenly able to support multitasking and doing many things. At the same time, CPU will probably begin again, become a limiting factor. And suddenly that will become a marketable, uh, feature once again in the future. And the cycle will continue

Sandeep:   14:18
exactly the way I think about this is there are always a very specialized use cases for something like this. Poor liver devices, where the management guy who actually option from meeting to meeting and he needs to, like, always make notes and most of the things requires getting the devices or the fun factor definitely matters to him. So there might be some specialized use cases for some specific people. What I see are realizes that this consumer companies are so good in marketing and flushing of these ideas into the market. They make this specialized use cases as general fashion, and people start accepting it. And then once they realize that it is more than the minimum they need, they actually go back to something on that become the fashion and which is not again generally applicable, maybe for other settle special classes and this consumer companies make them as general fashion, and then the cycles keep happening. But at any point of time, for each off this new Elena off ideas. I feel that there is a very specialized subset off users who will be very happy and everyone else who is joining the party. We talked knowing what actually the party's for. That's what I see that on. You guys actually laid the really interesting part way into some of the other interesting announcements that happened and my views as well.

Slava:   15:42
Oh, before wearing board, I want to say to your listeners, You now hurt a very perfect example Have the humanity can describe patterns in any round the movements of the past? Police confirmed. Yeah,

Zain:   16:00
and and And before you continue, I also want to ask you some deep if if you you could give an example of you said that you've noticed patterns where of people will start selling something that's a specialized solution, as if it's a general thing. The hype train gets on it and starts liking that general thing, and then they realize it's not for them, and they go back to the previous thing that they were with because they did not like the new general thing that was being promoted. Could you give an example of that. Like what? What are you thinking off

Sandeep:   16:32
one of the example? I seize even. Let's take the mobile devices. It said the screen size at one point, maybe like 3 to 4 years ago, the smallest screen size watched the fashion and eventually having a bigger screen size. At one point, actually, Mobile reads the sides off a tab, and that was like commonly accepted place, lots and lots of people. And then people realize that. Okay, I think it doesn't make sense to carry kind of like a slave in my pocket. And I can't even 50 in my pocket and then jeans set off jeans. The stylist came of it like able to give the tab and then became a drink. And now it's again going back to like fines for print find at most 5.1 in tow are around that range. The marbles are the kind of like generally accepted one, but 3 to 4 years there were tough times were like 6.57 inch mobile force were kind of fashion and which was not necessary for 99% of the people who are just using it to call our season video or see something like a mobile phone, right? But it was useful for, say, media artists who needs to see you high pitch. The major's not need to see a video and make edits. And then, for people like that, it was kind of useful. What have

Zain:   17:46
a mai

Sandeep:   17:47
became a fashion because off some very specialised of Eustace and gagging Davey, I used fine

Zain:   17:54
yeah, yeah, you think of these new features are kind of like a evolutionary process, where makers, the foreign manufacturers, trying many different things and then, like they're just seeing which one stick. Which one's forgive me? A improve sales in the longer term and so few feature stick going forward into the future years. But many of them don't

Slava:   18:16
breathe a word of this latest feature specifically for the ability that we start discussing today. E It wasn't it was a nonce before, but we should mention in scope a foldable devices Microsoft and Super. His door was announced in 2018. If you help look in this very strange device, it's affordable device from Microsoft, which completely completely misunderstood one of the thing that that actually industries reliant off and if you look on the on the device, they have affordable device that actually have two screens, not one. Which means you cannot comfortably look on one video on that ball screen. So my projections it will die like that product will not fly.

Sandeep:   19:02
Who off you like? Like spork. A lot known friends who likes pork a lot. But they know that they can eat boar because it's fact. And for the health reasons

Zain:   19:12
Well, im Muslim So I don't even eat pork. So I never even tried it.

Slava:   19:16
Okay, Might ever seen come Ukrainian? Hey,

Sandeep:   19:21
don't ask. That question is one of the interesting announcement Waas They pour lookalike taste like plant based substance which was again one of the major interesting kid amongst men off this consumer ship s O. This basically is a plant based produced which exactly tastes and look like pork because Brooke was not so good for help. But people, lots of lots of people like to barbecue pork. So on best report. So basically, this company announced this and then this is one of the kind of like a nice making announcement, which is lovely, large. It is very interesting and also not so unnatural. Very likely to happen when people love something which is not good for them. There will be always alternative. These companies come up if you love something, keep that. But I will make sure that it doesn't have you in the way you think maybe it might have been someone. Something else. Let's see. In future

Slava:   20:23
I actually, by the way I tried to my life. There is such thing. Such interesting thing, impossible meat. So this is actually a leaf that not beef, no real beef. But it says it's like like a real beef. Even tried it several times. And then the rent article that has 300 I think millions times more Estragon, which is a women hormone than the normal beef s. Oh, yes, your phrase about it might harm you another way. Probably very, very accurate. Yeah,

Sandeep:   20:59
that was one of the fistic thing. What do you guys in general thing? Because apart from this interesting announcement or pork request mint, where plan? There are a lot of this team and the physical fitness centers who actually I think protein based diet and there are a lot of plants, supplements, and there is also interesting company that I saw. I think I don't remember that company. If you guys is that you know there is a company where it gives a liquid and it is kind of like replacement for your food. I mean, you can take, like, 50 or 100 ml of that liquid, and it actually gives you enough car borders, protein I don't know all the things that is required, but

Zain:   21:38
everything of Soylent Green by any chance? Sorry, Soylent Green?

Sandeep:   21:43
I think so. I don't remember that most companies. Yeah, I reached very, very interesting Lots and lots of people on that. I saw it handled some time ago. And the electrodes off people following it and using it and writing reviews. And then people saying that in future there is one thing that people are enjoying now that's food. And they can't say one. That and people use it. You are looking so depressed by not course. Yes, I know you love about you the country place about because they're 100 Emma liquid and say that Okay? Everything involved in your barbecues there in this 100 drink and go to sleep

Slava:   22:23
like I s o exercising a lot literally go to gym upto five days per week. My fat mass is still big. It's slowly decreasing my muscle slowly increasing and constantly been doing this for years. The trend is clean and clear. It's it's going that they're actually very, very slow and the reason why it's ready. But it's slow because my diet this horrible, horrible, like it's easy. It's as far from being good. Diet is forcible, and I can't I like it. That is why I'm going to gym, I slowly improving, and I'm fine with that. It's very slow, but as long as actually improving and my fat Matt's actually decreasing, even if it was like 23% per year and they have a habit to continue, So I'm exactly fine. Okay, I

Sandeep:   23:06
think this is kind of like strange, but I do foresee that it's going to become in our time until people find out it's really harmful for the health and maybe has unintended side effects. I think it's going to be mainstream, at least in few sections, off the society and few countries.

Zain:   23:29
I kind of doubt that personally, just because Theo only the only thing that like that makes me doubt. That is, just looking at the past history of the nutrition industry, where every 10 years the findings are completely different from what the previous 10 years said. S O n any time, like there's, ah claim of like, hey, this will solve your nutrition problems. That claim was has so far always been debunked a few years later. So until something has been sustained for, like 2030 years, I have a hard time believing any of the nutrition trends.

Slava:   24:07
For example, it's like it's remind me that's currently where that that's sweet. Sports in the history where amount off white papers that prove that coffee will give you cancer is exactly the same amount of white paper that says opposite you. Say you're from came from Cancer s Oh, yes, To be fair, I the reason. But I don't think it will. It will actually solve the problem, but I agree with Sunday that it will be a trend like that is for sure. Like I do remember like in Ukraine in nineties, there was a trend off showing and TV some, uh, some dude superpower that would say I can, um ah, what he was saying, Charge your water with some healing abilities, Just put your water next to TV. And was that trend lasted for four? I don't know, half a year least people putting war bunk of water and accepted to division said TV sets. So yeah, that's that's pretty much as well. I don't think that even when they found that something actually is not working, the trance still might continues. Just because it's actually relevant with helps or not The tall

Zain:   25:17
Yeah, yeah, I can buy the trend lasting for like, upto five years, maybe 10 at the very most. But like that, that seems to be like the lifespan of all of these, like industry nutrition related trends. After that, they die out.

Slava:   25:31
What what probably will perceive, which I probably would buy his overall trend on more healthier life. Be more aware of her with your body starts to measuring it. Maur start collective data analyzing making decision based on this data that this Richard that trends will continue very slowly because it's actually useful. So with color continue. But it's much harder. That's what's already slowly on along these trends. We will see some Reddick week just eat this. You will become healthy solution along the way that will not work, fight by design that will not work. And the interesting part that again it's all random there. This means that will be people who start teaching nutrition and suddenly will cure cancer. There is nothing to do with that supplements, but they will obviously be on the map of that settlements, producers. And yet we will see them helping to grow. But

Zain:   26:25
that trend of like collecting nutritional stats about yourself, that could have an interesting side effect that we see in businesses all the time and companies where you're not being driven by, like the end goal of being healthy per se but your view being driven by what increases that metrics that you're measuring and people discover. Hey, this food increases the metric and you assume that that's gonna make you healthier. But your metric goes up, but you might end up having some serious side effects that you don't quite realise. Yeah, certain APS keep notifying you with pop ups because it increases engagement

Sandeep:   27:08
exactly and saying thank you for setting up the stage for the next topic. I had another very interesting frank, which we actually saw in the CS and generally all observant I'll do that is that every single price is getting a pretty app. So, for example, there was this announcements like a fridge, as I have, and it is included with cameras inside the fridge and also here technologies for object directions. And it can tell you automatically there is something that's missing from the fridge for you to shop in the crossing. Say, for example, you open the tap and say that I want to broccoli soup today and the freaks can actually see there is a broccoli on your pretty market will let you know that you need to shop it while you're back home from office and similarly like, based on the existing items in the fridge, you can send you a least off probable Recep eats that you could pray for that night's dinner, saying that you have tomato and then everything else so you could make it probably like salsa and the faster today. And so it's doing. It's basically like Kelsey what's there and also suggest you what you can people from that and you can also ask it like what I can prove that. What do I have today? Can I prefer this? Should've shopped this. So there are lots of lots of friends where the actually today devices that were using it like a lame that axe sitting over there and serving us and APS are getting integrated into this and more and more interfaced more Pleyel whites assistance like Alex Google full. All these things were major trend. And I look like I see a civilizational change or how we interact in our day today life about various consumer electronic goods that have t me fridge washing machine at various thing. What do you guys think about a fridge sending your notification? Hey, guys, bring eggs today because based on my understanding of your health, you need to get more protein. You don't have a good hope. What do you think about Fritz sending you a message like this?

Zain:   29:18
Well, what will want one thing? Um, you were saying earlier about hey, the best way to find new technology is by looking at what was popular 20 years ago. My very specifically remember 20 years ago reading about these kind of smart fridges and popular science magazines, a fridge will tell you, Here's what you need to get for your groceries.

Slava:   29:37
Yeah, so I immediately they have the same thought. And I wanted to mention that Looks like all other devices already become smart with Regis. Like starting five years ago, There was already some soon to the smart preach, and it's still not there. Like I I just don't know. It looks like we're doing it horribly wrong with Bridgers. Freezers like Something is not right there. Why, Why, why? It's stupid. It's not in use, right? We we try it something trying for for for for years now and for some reason doesn't

Zain:   30:11
work if we just have, like, a bit of an extra challenge, because you need good image recognition that can recognize items potentially like that are inside packaging, uh, to So if you're trying to solve, like general recognition of items, sometimes you could open up the fridge doors and not realize what's in psycho stuffers. Inside containers Uh, right there, like it's like pilot behind each other, a hidden in the middle. So that's that's hard. And then you have to one engineering way to work around it is tell people you're putting it in the fridge. Wrong. Put it in the freeze this way. And that's an education of consumers that will just not worry. Can't educate. I don't

Sandeep:   30:49
like to bring He might be Amazon. Go here for your service.

Slava:   30:56
Oh, but wait a second. If you shop numbers on go, you would see that if you put your if you take a thing like if you ever shop on Amazon, try to get something from from the shelf Actually in your hand Then put it back. You'll see that immediately. There will be stuff that actually will fix how you put it back Supposed todo exact sports on.

Sandeep:   31:19
I also remember that there were like hundreds and thousands off cameras in that almost every single centimeter. The shop is covered with cameras. You

Zain:   31:30
have tons of cameras And have you been in the Amazon? Go store.

Slava:   31:35
Come on. Describe to people what those numbers don't go because not everyone might might win. The award was speaking.

Zain:   31:40
So the Amazon go store is basically like a little um, a shopping store grocery store that Amazon has started off and the store is meant to be completely automated. You go inside as you go inside, you scan yourself in using your the Amazon app, and it recognized that this is you in the store. There's cameras all over the store. They're just constantly monitoring and tracking you in a way that Jeff Bezos provinces is totally not creepy. And, uh, every time you pick up an item you put in your basket basket or your shopping cart, the story just monitoring that and noticing it. What's going on? And then when you walk out of the store, the store, you don't there's no cash register. You don't check out or anything. You just walk out of the store and the stores has, like, has made sure, and it's known what you're carrying and you already have an Amazon account with a credit card in there. It'll just automatically charge your credit card for all the items that you have purchased and send your receipt, and I I went to one of these stores like about a year or so ago. I think Seattle might be the only store. Have you guys been doing the Amazon go store?

Slava:   32:49
Oh yeah. Bean in San Francisco, The lottery. You

Zain:   32:51
know, they have the one thing that was I found a museum. Maybe this is not the case anymore. But when I went there, uh, the guy didn't get the receipt for my purchase until about 23 hours after the I walked out of the store and I walked out wondering kind, they just steal this bag of cheese and, um, at least to me, this the large delay and the amount of time it took me, that going in a gap store and the store had very low volume of people going in and out to me that was implying that this door, like even though they have cameras set up, they're not actually using a I to monitor. People have humans watching the cameras and seeing yes, like double checking with the aye, aye, is doing before they send you the receipt and and the bill. So

Slava:   33:46
pretty much might be pretty much Maybe I am pretty sure that you're right, but it doesn't mean that technology doesn't work yet. They might have even researching it. The billing, even like half percent of the error rate, might be too much,

Zain:   33:59
right? Right. And just gathering more training data effectively. So exactly, and

Sandeep:   34:04
I think it's something like Tesla. The greatest love is basically like from the day one. You have all the required sensors and data gathering for anyone with the Google Did the more data you have fire six years, 10 years down the line, when the hardware, technology algorithms and various techniques are matured enough, the person for the company who has the maximum data for the past he's the one who can we find? What's the future? Is Andi. I think they're in that game. Probably it is practical and probably even the 10.5% or even. Maybe it's At least I'm guessing that it should be definitely at least 1% error rate. Maybe it's not public yet, but 99% accuracy When in Amazon goes store. With hundreds of people walking around and a few tins off items, I'm pretty sure at least it should be 1% error rate. I think Amazon is just eating that lost because it stinks over the future and what it can do, not some large soft things guys. I think we already completed 30 minutes and I have a few interesting things as we're coming up. So let's mourn. There were other interesting thing, and I have toiled as a person who is trying to understand not just engineering, but also from product management, business and consumer side off things. And I have a liking to a start up. I'm trying to understand, distracted you like why this company might be making this announcement at this stage and trying to understand some of these announcements and that perspective, as fell apart from just to use it. We respected that one thing that Cartman eyes Waas Sony announcing a concept car the I'll distribute Sony announced the concept car. Sony made a car electric autonomous vehicle car, and it was pretty interesting. It looked like kind off weeks off, partial on the Tesla. Maybe it's closer to this life. It was really, really nice. Leak. Not anything less than a actual car manufacturers concept car. It was that good. And when I tried to read a board, like, Why would Sony enter into Catholic? Are the seniors do they want to get into the car market? Are was it some other reason I saw some of the reviews? I read some of the product management's kind of perspective on the right and then what area? And also Sony made a announcement that it's a concept car, but it's it's not having any ideas to make it production ready. So that kind of linked to another trend basically wants Only did Waas they're shook is that they have every single devices that is required to build it. A autonomous futuristic car, for example. There is no rearview mirrors in that. It's all cameras, and then everything is display already. Tesla has, like, I think, 15 or 16 inch monitor inside. So similar.

Zain:   36:54
There's no rear view mirrors on the Sony car.

Sandeep:   36:56
Yeah, there's no rear view mirrors, but in the same way you actually see a camera. It's in the same shape, but it's a camera. Andi. It gets displayed into inside your car passport. Oh, that. There's always some

Zain:   37:11
lag between camera and monitor,

Slava:   37:15
but by the way, if you haven't seen the Kessel cyber truck, it's doesn't have the rear rear mirrors. It's also using just camera. Okay, it's literally have, but to be fair, they still haven't got approval from federal. So this means that on the actual road it might have, I might as well have maybe have the normal rear mirror.

Zain:   37:39
Makes sense. Thayer. This is like a demo peas to show what they could do. Not like this is what we're putting into consumer cars.

Sandeep:   37:46
Yeah. I mean, if you understand physical, I think Sony worked there. What? That it was like they actually showed to the market. They have every single sensors, cameras and other entertainment products that they're already building, which can be assembled to make a car futuristic. I think that was the purpose, I guess. And it's kind of like showing to the people that we have are showing to the company's car manufacturers. What do you guys think? What? Why do you guys think? Like, let's start with Slava Sony announcing electronic autonomous car slow. What do you think like what's happening here?

Slava:   38:18
I mean, first of all, I think the type of announcement says a lot about you. Went itself, says they went. Actually, to be fair, there was a time when when SAS had many, many big announcement from the eight players in the field. Like I think the last one who left says was something. If you folks remember approximately five years ago all the something when they will, they will. The known snort Galaxies was incest. They were the last who left. And now only, like really, really weird announcement left here and Sony in the car vertically. Pete's that part photo. Now. The reason why I think everyone fighting for specifically cars is a pulling one in the cars market. The reason. A brand new market to be developed as soon as we will reach wholly autonomous autonomous state, we actually now will be in the state of fighting for windshield windshield informations Face. This is the last resort that she hasn't been populated with additional information. Read between lines, Lines adds. That doesn't have ads and you win shield right now. But it can actually like drove a line and say Starbucks now has a promotion. Just go there, which will take forever to monetize in the current legal space because we don't have full autonomous vehicle. If we're moving to that bright future, that would be a main battle. Who controlled the windshield because now, if you're speaking about these future potential model off only renting in cars that the fully autonomous he was beginning renting the key there were there will be to drop prices as much as possible. And as usual, advertisement is one of the options and this glass that here is the best place to put this yet. S o. I think everyone do understand this market because you can really find estimation of the size of the market. So I don't think that, uh, results without interest, there would be such estimation. And that is why I'm pretty sure everyone tries to get there. Maybe not per se to be in the car manufacturer business, but to say, have a technology. Maybe I can create a smart windshield or it can create a media my career, some other platform that hopefully will be integrated with father manufacturer. Who knows, maybe we will see a ball car and part of the apple cart actually would be would be implemented by Sonny. Got for the no, but of nevertheless yes. Yeah, that is my

Zain:   40:47
perspective. Yeah, You got a good point there. Ah, lot of this stuff is the advertising thing in the windshield. They're really good. Good, good point. And this sounds kind of like it's ah, Sony's highly and like to start manufacturing cars themselves like you said. This sounds more like Sony is trying to position itself so that the car manufacturers come to Sony and say, Hey, look, you see you've got this good technology Let's put it in our cars or Sony, at least if it's easier for starting to reach out to those manufacturers and their sales process becomes much easier because now here's a proof of concept. You can see that we've done this to certain extent. We're not just like, uh, having labor where that we're trying to sell you that we're gonna put this in your cars. You've already done this. You can trust us exactly like a lot of the self driving car. Folks are actually just building the self driving car technology and then putting it in cars that they're getting from other manufacturers and they're not building their own cars is following a similar model.

Sandeep:   41:52
Exactly one of the coins rental are very similar. Strategy is basically like a media itself, reading a lot of things that I'm served living so that they could sure that they could. People of the actual car manufacturers can use and really a teepee chips on the actual car devices and then all the things they're doing probably is physically show. Like you said that the disposable. And here is the program that I will help you. It's like a first step. I will help you on once you take that first appear in my left. So we're goingto go to our floor so I can't hold the lift Now it's basically the same strategy.

Zain:   42:30
Yeah, and that's what they've got These, like, extreme things. Like having monitors for your review minute mirrors or just like having a super nice sporty car just because those are just more features that might attract more eyeballs and more buzz, which is the main point here. Yeah, regardless of whether or not it's practical in an average vehicle.

Sandeep:   42:46
Yeah, uh, moving on. You have some time left before we close on. I would like to also kind of bring about a lot off useful things. That was unknown stash, not just the funky, futuristic Expo, some off the useful things that caught my attention was like there was a device that was announced for hearing impaired people. It's kind of it's kind of like apples airports. It is really nice. It comes through it acts as well by a Bluetooth on DFC and the communication protocols. And in the app, the people can actually control trouble. The frequency onda various terminologies are technicalities about the hearing impairment. For example, hearing impairment is not just, like, not able to hear. It has different levels, and there are different categories off hearing impairment, like travelling is not this particular frequency of sound I am not able to hear and things like that. So this company came up with that. Hearing Aid looks like Apple Airport, and it has app, and you can actually control every single specification on that. And that is kind of like huge heat with respect to, like, usability and people. I think it also got normally perform like one off the past consumer devices. Summer constancy. Yes, 20 Astra is one of the examples where I see, like so many things, can be done. Like anything, it be wise to a map and doing the control for the user through the app. It's not just like a fridge and a happened then the stinks me a message to bring water in the evening on and another thing. Interesting thing. I felt like a pretty useful Waas Loreal amount. Something called us, I think. But, uh, person, I think that the product name is Carl Auriol person. I guess so. Basically, what it does is it doesn't have you take selfies and photos about your own face, and it actually gives you the kind off mixture off the beauty products that you could use. For example, it makes a lip shade of lipstick colors share based on your requirement and what looks good on you, or he could set us what you want. It's not like premade lipstick, for example, prepares you for it prepares a specification that you provide with and it tells like war fits to your skin tone. It also actually held inputs from the environment and say, for example, today it's going to be sending, and it's going to use the perimeter to prepare a cream combination that helps in our getting the say sunburn, for example. So this is one of the interesting thing. We're more and more back. He's coming to the consumer goods. What do you guys think about, like every device on me is a smart iwas on everything that on me kind off knows where I stay, where I go, how I look, what's my physical looks like? And then we'll skin tone is a very specific personal thing, and Loria will actually know that because it needs to say that something that do you guys see that it's inevitable. Are you guys see that it is necessary. You guys see that like it's it's going to be optional

Zain:   46:11
doing a slightly tangential answer to what you're asking, like this Loreal thing where it's making recommendations on how you should look. That's the one interesting about thing about that is that it sounds like it would drive a marginalization of fashion because what people consider looks good in America would not match what they would think. It would look good and say, Pakistan or India or even within America, like within your subculture, there's mobile subcultures of one subculture will think one thing looks good. Different culture would think that looks weird and prefer something else. Instead, if

Slava:   46:47
you allow this all this problem off non Communistic country,

Sandeep:   46:55
you seem to have a favor towards having this kind of recommendation and get a good position.

Slava:   47:01
A za person with slightly military background post apparently one thing it should be always in love collar, either green or or light green. That's about it.

Sandeep:   47:16
Well, looking at all these demos, which is not actually a Maxine Science fiction magazine, it's actually a working properly. It might be the only one working prototype in the whole world that a company created to showcase the future. But still, there is something in machinery that's actually working. It makes me feel sometimes, which scared like I don't have a choice to say no on some of these things that will actually include my personal space going forward because everything is connected to Internet. Everything has something called a Z I. Everything has cameras. Everything has, uh, microphones. So medically, it's like, I think I feel that maybe Firestone years down the line, there would be rules by federal what you can actually collect on various things. But I feel that I will not have a choice to say no,

Zain:   48:03
possibly or possibly five years. 10 years down the line will be when people will rebel and say, Hey, these all these cameras and invasive things are more specialized. That what I needed a regional stuff

Sandeep:   48:16
exactly exactly.

Slava:   48:19
Ah, you know this is actually perfectly in line with the trance that shows that overall, in the Stree off, any service is on the rice right now. You improving quarters your fingers through like beauty. This is perfect example. Improving Inter Stevie Beauty because you kind of opening opening these service's of professional duty maker to people who were not able to afford such terraces at all. But the interesting part that we actually have now a clear distinguish between wealthy people who will continue getting personal assistants for everything versus everyone else who will be joining a clap of getting robotics, azi helpers. And if the feet in, in the model that robot was trained, trained in, they will get a good service. If they don't, they don't. And the perfect example of these is actually, for example, courts call service, like the most important clients, will always get actual human being on the line immediately. Everyone else going through the automated system that might help them or like they they're not just the key customers for the father, for the company's always simpler to say, these 3% of the tail just not important customers. For us, it's works with 97%. Andi, I think this is This is perfectly much that trend. More people will get service. Yes, but the's devi this separation will only only increase is going

Sandeep:   49:57
forward said, for example, just to summarize what you say is something that's applicable for Masses will inevitably use the technology to make it cheaper and kind of like consumable by the people on dhe. Something that special, like supporting something rich people they're goingto always have that specialization off human touch. I think we're in the world off. Yeah, and technologies that human touch our personalization is for differentiates planned the robotics. I mean, there was a time, like 10 years 15 years ago, robotics was personalization, and human touch was common. Now I think we're like you. Exactly. The spell it out. Human touch would become the specialization and everything else become like mass generalization.

Zain:   50:45
It's interesting because, like, I'm trying think of like what will have changed in the human touch between the past and now, or a past and future, because one example that comes to mind is like I've got some uncle, old older uncles and answer in India, for example, and they much prefer having to deal with when they go to a bank that pretty go to deal with people in person and get their stuff done. And in my mind, I'm think this is such a painful experience. I just want to go to the website, do my thing and get off and be done with it. But they're strong for that personal touch that they get at the bank, and they know that hate this person was, he's telling me is going to actually work for me. Uh,

Slava:   51:31
I just have to chain me to specifically appointment. Go ahead.

Zain:   51:35
Just that there are seems like there are certain areas in which personal touch it will be more valued, especially when you are worrying, thinking about your own knees and you feel like you're a need a different from other people's needs. And there are other areas where personal touch might not be as necessary. If you just want to withdraw cash from your bank account, uh, personal touch might not be relevant to you prefer the convenience of being able to do it from home much more or ordering stuff on Amazon You're not. You don't care about the personal touch there. So it seems like there's there's some, like, fine line between. One personal touch is valued and people will be willing to pay Amore premium price for it versus one. It's not really the thing that people would care about, and they would rather just quickly get in, get get their stuff done, get out as fast

Slava:   52:28
as possible. I just wanted to mention that they actually have. I used to have a very similar feeling. First of all, in Ukraine, the people trying to stay away from from working with people like that is by default. Like if you if you're trying to see you go to bank, you will try to, um, to to go online and do this thing there. And I was exactly like that. Like my parents, they would prefer speak with real people when it came to us and never seen done by phone. I actually got get scared because I actually was, was preferring everywhere responsible, Going online now, after being in the U. S. Will five for six years and then remember how how many, exactly? I'm quite opposite, actually, like, if I want to do new things, I no longer want to learn. I want to find someone and ask a question and made that person helped me to learn and describe everything and immediately work on my behalf. I even knew Katie Okay, To pay more for the service it requires to get actually someone who'll help in many, many cases, my father have changed. I used to actually do my homework study, define all the verbs or denounce then going online. And actually, now you know what you want and to find finding that, uh, these days, no, Like, I prefer to find a human being and start asking questions. Hire someone or I don't know. That's how you as the people than you guys doing things. And I found indeed, in many cases, I no longer preferable customers. He I'm in this scope off or I'm not in this court. But I'm in the group of customers that they're no longer even think that they deserve for human touch of their full, you know, automated way, and I probably a cz. Many of you have spent many, many minutes or trying to fight with the board on the call off the center just to get the real human being that actually can solve my problem. Because all this information cannot having zero. Not all of them actually give you these quick, quick, zero button, go. Some of them actually will go through many question because before they will put you on the line and the worst, the worst part is the WAM. Were they asking you that question? That think sorry, I was called something actually closed today. So call us on Monday, your raise, or spend 50 minutes answering to chat about some some stupid questions. And now, now the telling, at least

Zain:   54:51
so would it be fair to say that your preference really is for whichever option you believe will save you the most time?

Slava:   55:01
Yes. And actually, even with example cash withdrawal if you think about it, even they're just imagine situation. You walk to the Kasher saying I want $100 someone used it to you. It's simpler than put your card in poutine click something thing in the amount. But the first case, actually, right now impossible with current state of technologies and second case, if possible. So yes, I answer a question. Yes, whatever is more convenient and I do think that our most natural way of communication is vag. Wagar language, language. None. None, actually. Very strict. Very vague. Very in Kanaan country. Tw on this is how we communicate Unfortunately, otherwise, there would be no conflicts. Domestic conflicts between between Britain people. Uh,

Sandeep:   55:56
okay, that was a very interesting thing. And just before, actually, I think we are close to one Howard. So before I close off, I just want to cover everything else in one line. So, apart from it is what other things were there who are basically like there was real liberty razors with offline Babs. And one trend basically, like once assistant is integrated with every single damn Elektronik items which is connected to the Internet and every single damn it predicated on these connected today. Which means you can control every single thing my wife's assistance and mobile labs. And there are also

Zain:   56:33
two of this podcast for the rest of the stuff.

Sandeep:   56:35
Yeah, I think so. But, uh, like you said, it's a futuristic expo, so probably we should just leave it ourselves for 60 minutes large and there will be definitely lot off present exports shows that we should definitely talk about coming sessions. So they're also this eight. Katie means that was announced. I'm not sure who would use it because there is no eat cake. Contain Andi who, if I buy it Katie, what would I use it with Understand for K country down there? I don't know. But there was this announcement, and they were, like, kind off Apple Airport's computer for less surprise, more battery better sound like Jabr airports and things like that. There are also very interesting things around. Robotic security systems ready for detective. There is a baby or elderly person at home, and if they fall, they have a kind of emergency situation. Equal alert you. It's not just for into their detection. So there are a lot off expansions on the security cameras, not just for outside for inside aspect. There were many use cases. They're more like a ring cameras and other companies who are into this to mine. There are also interesting things in the gaming industry where you could actually get a detachable gaming controllers that you could put on either side of the more violent used the mobile as the gaming console, like a Nintendo mobile cancer. So the parents making your mobile move closer and closer to that with detachable controller. So that's very popular on Dhe. I think it's also going to be a hit. If I understand the gamers philosophy, let's collect whatever I see that should be able to play. And I should have a gaming console. They cannot. That's great. Thanks. On there were other things like hi speeding tonight. High quality display. Great cameras are treated like Mom in every single announcement that was made and that much cities had eloped. Our announcement, which are basically concept club, which can never be in the marsh road because it sounds like led and glass and things like that may be in future, but definitely not fighter. Six years, strong life. There are some interesting things, like one place kept, a piano made up, just the mobile. It's like the piano keys were on the mobile screen, and you line up like 10 mobile and it looks like a piano and actually make sounds. So there was an interesting and funny things to fool people onto the boots as well. There were helicopters, lots and lots and lots of things, but this was it. This is what I learned reading about see years reading about reviews people wrote and something that I found interesting. And we also had a lots and lots of review from you guys, starting from Ford a multi razors to electronic cars, autonomous cars, cameras, Amazon, go. I think this session was pretty interesting because we touched so many right topics. We also talked about civilization, humanity, human, Dad didn't talk technology, future, past, present philosophy, everything. So

Zain:   59:35
psy tracks were the most important. The most interesting parts of this thought guest.

Sandeep:   59:39
And I would say that one thing that we actually got from this episode is that that one line with slumber said anything for masses use off. The clergy kind of becomes north and reach. People are specialization human. That's becomes non That's something that keeps in my mind. And second thing is like you said 20 years ago, what what was kind of like future is actually present. So if you want to believe the company, look back. So these are some of the lines that actually makes me pretty interesting. Take us for me, saying before we close out any closing talks

Zain:   1:0:15
this was a fun podcast. I enjoyed it and hope. Hopefully our listeners enjoyed it too

Sandeep:   1:0:22

Slava:   1:0:24
Yeah. I will spend 20 seconds off the time by by describing your potential future that the door from you folks. So in 20 years from now, imagine it's night. I'm going to my reach. I opening in preach like, Dude, this is sir tonight in the role you're eating. No, no, I just I just exercise it yesterday. No, I ask your iPhone. It says you never done these like

Sandeep:   1:0:47
No, no, no.

Slava:   1:0:47
Actually, outside. That's forgot My phone. No, I asked the door locks. It says it never know. Never left our home sex eyes. That look will be soon in the future. Thank you, folks, for introducing me to this bright future that I'm not looking forward to it.

Sandeep:   1:1:01
And before you pull out your burger, it just closes the door. And pushy are

Slava:   1:1:06
because your rash is because it's ween those

Sandeep:   1:1:13
guys. It was an interesting session. I hope you guys enjoyed too. And as you shall be putting all the references, lynx and other interesting videos that we saw for preparing this country on like we said, we are also exacted Also kind of skeptical and few things But looking forward to the future like you all do on duh. Till next time. Bye bye. See you.

Slava:   1:1:36
My mind care.

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The Human Touch