Standing Out - Episode 9

Zain:   0:00
who are your real customers and what are their real pains? What are their real goals that they're trying to achieve? If you can really understand that core idea of why they're asking for what they're asking for, what they really need, that is where the power is. That's where you can really jump ahead of the game and say, "Hey, how can I be more innovative in addressing this?"  

Zain:   0:39
Hello everyone, welcome to Tech Stuff. Wait, not quite welcome to The Nonintuitive Bits. It's the podcast where we talk about the effects of tech on our lives and society and how we can take the best advantage of it. I'm your host, Zain Rizvi, and with me is Sandeep

Sandeep:   0:59
Hello listeners, it's nice to be talking to you guys again

Zain:   1:04
Slava couldn't be here with us today. He had a another commitment. But we're gonna have a good episode. Now you guys may be wondering why we're calling ourselves The Nonintuitive Bits. It's so in fact, you guys might not be wondering if, I'm pretty sure that most of you who have been searching for this podcast have noticed that there are a few other podcast with very similar names. There's one podcast called literally the Tech Stuff, exactly the same name as ours, there's one called TechStuff without the space, and one that is Tech Stuff Daily. So three other podcast that we're competing with on the basis of just the name alone. And it was getting really, really confusing for folks to find us. In fact, I would have people who were just standing right there in front of me trying to find the podcast, and they were having a hard time figuring out which one of those four choices were us. So we're now The Nonintuitive Bits.

Sandeep:   2:02
totally actually saying I did. You see a couple off limits from a business thing that hey, guys, it's fun to watch it. Frontal is, um, the topics you talk. But when I share your parties with my friends, it's hard for them to find her because they're human. Impact stuffs that Obama and they're established one on but also one off. The friend also called in that you need to give credit for someone who has started a forecast that saved them from long time. You don't have to comfort with them. It was a nice way of saying so. It's really, really important on I like this particular name change on the way you walk it up because it is still a leading me off this poor cast. And we are not afraid off people working to make it whatever is necessary, as that's the simple part of users,

Zain:   2:55
right? You made the mistake of not doing her due diligence with the name when we chose it the first time around. It was only after the first episode aired that we realized Oh, shoot. There are other podcasts with the exact same name. Uh huh. And, uh and it was This is the easiest it will ever be for us to change our name. Going forwards will only get harder and harder and harder has become more and more established.

Sandeep:   3:18
Exactly. I really liked the name money. You base. That is awesome. Name that you came up with. It also listeners. Same came a bit really interesting. Low as well. Foot credit for coming up with this name logo and rebranding off. This whole forecast is saying I'm really looking forward to getting a kickback aspect. If you're listening to this park guest if you're following for forecast to let us know. Do you like long interview bits? Do you like our logo or do you have you an interesting sufficient You're always all years. Seriously feedback. But personally, Zane, thank you so much. Awesome name, awesome local. I'm pretty sure many off listeners. It's not all. We're definitely going to like it. And also, it's going to make a lot easier for us on search engine and then other part cast streaming sites.

Zain:   4:09
Thanks, Andy. And the place where this ah new name came from. It was it was kind of helpful that we did had a few episodes under our belt by this time because we had more. We kind of got into a bit of a regiment of about what kind of stuff we're actually talking about in this podcast and this stuff this team of talking about the effects of different aspects of technology that people generally don't think about it. But we each other, like often don't even think about often Were we surprised each other with some of our intuitions? Uh, that team just kept re occurring through all pretty much every single episode. And so this seemed to really a strike, a chord as being a good description of just what we're talking about and the and describe what we are for the kind of people who care about this kind of stuff.

Sandeep:   5:02
Exactly. The name delivers the message. What we want,

Zain:   5:08
right? And so now in this, in the spirit of standing out from the other text of podcasts, the theme for today's podcast is standing out from the crowd. And how do you differentiate yourself and your product? And there are a lot of different ways in which we different share products. I think the most common one that we think of is like, Hey, having different features have the best features that other people don't have. And to a certain extent, everything that you consider can be a feature if you're gonna cross your eyes and look at things in a different way. Everything is a feature of one sir from O. R. Another, but you're always intended to be talking about technical features and how those stand up. But there are many more dimensions than that which we can stand out. Uh, Sandy, would you like to talk about one of your dimensions. That your favorite dimensions?

Sandeep:   6:04
Yeah, very justic thing, one of my favorite diamond ship. And I would like to say that the thinking about differentiation is changing as I'm getting more and more experience in seeing different aspects off chronic Like, for example, if you have asked me the same question, who are? Three years ago, I would have exactly certainly many other interviews, a feature, our distinction on the small, incremental thing as a differentiating factor. Now, actually, you made a line about customer right off the user. So if you ask me one thing I see as a differentiating factor, it's all about how other user experience has in group are, however, user experience. Another product is different from signal. What is that? One single thing that differentiates our user realize that this is a different product, even though feature wise even though, for example, like performance and various other small, incremental things are saying I would like to measure my products are differentiation as what is that user experience that can fell? Okay, this is a different what

Zain:   7:21
Can you remind me what product you were gone?

Sandeep:   7:24
So I worked on the cloud product off being a people of new model on the cloud flower. So for me, serving it model is a functionality. You could serve different types of models you could sell Fasters Lord on different instant types all those things that Peter but how easy it is to serve a model using the product that I'm working on differentiates me as a engineer working on the car company, the computer parts

Zain:   7:53
just the ease of use.

Sandeep:   7:55
He's off use our user experience like it's not just about ease of use. Say, for example, can I link it with other related things in the course is from, for example, the growing get model for prediction. You wants training game, All right, So can this product be how close it is for training a modern city? Can I be like a pipeline for the user? That's another day, much off user experience so that I mentioned

Zain:   8:21
that maybe make me these books are going,

Sandeep:   8:24
but I meant user experience. It's not just about how easy it is to use just this product. It's more about like, what do I feel by using it? So I need to change a lot off my understanding off this whole I don't mind. So that's what I meant by differentiate imply using

Zain:   8:41
gotcha. That makes perfect sense, because there there's definitely just the ease of use aspect of just how how easy is it to use this particular product? Which is how ah, a lot of companies that are very developer oriented, better the have work in that regard, like strike versus paper towel holder people with the established player in the ecosystem and strike came along. And the main reason why they took off like they did was because they were so much easier to use for developers, even though the functionality as a whole was pretty comparable to what people that offer. But you had took months, lots of work to actually implement it.

Sandeep:   9:24
Love,

Zain:   9:25
yeah, even like what you're saying, is making it easier to use at pulling extra folks. Now leave that you might want to use or that you might be interested in your product itself is not offering you features, but you're making it easier to use other people's feature. It's like, even if this thing that has that where you just innovating with other bits and other platforms around the Web? Exactly. Yeah, and for my product, like we have Ah, Jupiter notebooks, platform notebooks. We are right now this plain Manila Jupiter library with open source packages preinstalled. But our biggest feature is again ease of use from the perspective of it's a huge pain installing all these libraries and making them compatible with each other. Anyone can do it if they're willing to spend a few hours of their day doing it and, uh, maintaining it as the packages get upgraded going forwards. But it's a big time sync and that he's of use of issues. Deal

Sandeep:   10:27
made sense, extorted the sense. I have a question here. What are they just in public? So we talked about diferencia in respect of the products we walk off right on the kind of year diver single agreeing on user experience. And then what is The field user gets by using a product that differentiates us. What do you think about keeping the differentiating factor candy Merely going forward. It's not about a single state that you reach a day and then stop that differentiating is a volley process, and we teach to ever Otherwise there is no difference here in Kabul on how do you think about this particular functionality involving to keep that differentiate, in fact, that always

Zain:   11:26
I know I would necessarily agree with that statement. I mean, there are situations where it's true, but I mean it out statement will be true in my mind. When you have competitors who are trying to run to where you are and as the competitors run to where you are, then you have to run faster to keep ahead of them. But if you don't have competitors running to where you are, you were differentiated before from the other offerings in the marketplace. And just by definition, you would remain differentiated. Doesn't mean that you shouldn't be trying to improve use the experience, make the product even better. But a CE faras differentiation is concerned. I don't know if I would say that differentiation would just fade away on its own unless people kind of forget certain aspects of your branding.

Sandeep:   12:23
It is our wedding. For me is fan a zoo. You're popular. Actors are looking at you. It might be the kids where your project that is other complication, that it's also really similar for that they might be focusing on different Bentley. For example, let's assume that you actually get product and we're focusing on the user experience on a competition is being the similar protected safeties. They're focusing on the border on performance and costs, so they're like, even though it takes harder and longer time to get things wrong. But we make sure that you're asked off doing some particular operation, that both off this cornet support is faster and cheaper. So don't you think that the safe was you? Eventually, once that ghoul is reached, the product was thinking only about the user. Experience would be start thinking about cost and the other efficient symmetric that the competition was looking right in the primary face on the confrontation, which was looking that cost on efficiency as the primary goal in the first place would be now looking like the user experience. So eventually don't you think that there will always be calm. Producing will be moving in the similar direction, and eventually you will be required to evolve. And since she ingeniously and you cannot keep up just like a zit crime as your mission,

Zain:   13:54
that is, Ah, good argument that e guess it depends on I mean, first of all, you're basically assuming that my premises and valid that you will not be in a situation. We don't have people trying to get to where you are. Yeah, yeah. So in a crowded marketplace, definitely. I agree that that's that's going to be the case. And at first, people may have taken different tax tracks and, like focusing on slightly different areas trying to go after de finishes. But you're right, then your goal is to be a global brand. The global source of this one product. You're right. It's it's kind of national. Silky hair. I've dominated my niece. Now how do we get into the other guy's niece and take over his niece as well?

Sandeep:   14:49
Yeah, exactly.

Zain:   14:51
So, yeah, and at that point, you really have to have the other side could do the same thing, and you're Some people will say it becomes a question off. You can do better marketing and at that point, but what? One thing that I feel very strongly about is that it really comes down to understanding your customers, figuring out who are your real customers, who's your target customer and What are their real pains? What are they really goals they're trying to achieve and once you have a good understanding of what they are? And this is hard as developers like just figuring out where they are, why they're doing stuff? Because, uh, at work, you know that we just got told. Hey, implement feature X and you go implement feature acts you haven't might not have any idea how the customers will use picture extra why they care about feature acts in the first place. It's hard to figure out why customers do what they want to do. Our want what they want. But if you can really understand that core idea of why they're asking for what they're asking for, what they really need, that is where the power is. That's where you can really jump ahead of the game and say, Hey, how can I be more innovative and addressing this? How can you make this answer easier? And this is kind of like one of the criticisms that people tend to give of the whole Hey, listen to your customer mentality, which is basically what I'm saying is a type of listen to the custom Galati. You may have heard the counter argument of people. If Ford was listening to the customers, he would have given them a faster horse. Have you heard this?

Sandeep:   16:42
Yeah, it's kind of like non deep duty of knowledge, which is kind of true, because the intuition always say something different for the money you is actually, the true facts

Zain:   16:55
right? And I think that there's a flaw in that argument for the arguments a little incomplete because the argument is saying, Hey is assuming that you listen to the customer and you give the customer what the customers explicitly tells you that they want. But that's not really what I'm advocating for here, said. You listen to the customer and you try to understand what the customer is really needing, because what the customer needed in the horse scenario is a way to get from a to B faster. And if you could understand that court need, then you could realize, Hey, let me build this car and delivered to the customer, which is what for? Did you understood that what the core pain was of the customer? It wasn't just being an abstract, pretty abstract work of art hoping that maybe customers will like it. She knew what their core pain was, and he came up with a way to address that.

Sandeep:   17:51
And you call that as the differentiating factor off for success. But,

Zain:   17:57
um, I don't know the word friend. She ating is the right word, but that is what allowed him to make the revolutionary change, which basically, yes, boy and was a differentiating factor because there was no other. A person who could offer that level of quality for the transportation service is

Sandeep:   18:15
exactly so. That's that's That's my understanding, proof of your explanation and whose will be a great to meet you in the lines about what you said. My understanding is that you said that understanding what you are customer really needs and believe that he's also a differentiating factor, which is not common across all the right.

Zain:   18:39
Absolutely. That is a good observation

Sandeep:   18:42
executive. At second point, I would like to highlight from what you were describing that caught my attention, is that you said the inviting many features that is required to be there, not it sorry than your competition, but dropping off something we thought doing it is also differentiating factor it all. All these things falls under the category off non stick you guy playing Bonnie, you fumble off. Sex is tonight.

Zain:   19:12
That is true. I mean, if you compare Google docks toward docks, there is definitely not a feature parody. Their Google dot docks is missing a lot of features. That word Doc doesn't have like Mac Rose. But those air features that are very, very, very tiny percentage of people actually cared about. And if you understand what your customers actual needs are, you're gonna say, Hey, you know what? I don't need to waste time adding the complexity of supporting these features and just added the user interface complexity that these features will bring. Yeah, let me just go straight to solving a customer problems.

Sandeep:   19:46
Exactly. So we talked about two important things of friendship. According to us. One is like Mark doing everything and also doing exactly what our reserve eats and solving one. That paper I would like to understand because you touched upon that. The intention is that there might be many things that you could difference you. How do you choose? According to you, what are all the critics that you utilize differentiate yourself has talking on that one thing. What is that? One day there might be 10 to 15 things that you could utilize for in French. It in yourself. You need a stop light, for example. Like you're mentioning about the strike you talked about developer experience. Human is the monarchical system part the startles, the difference here being being for strike Waas, Def Leppard, expedience and everything. People perhaps using the So what is the main think? Thank you, Scientist. You have some There are your observe off. Whatever you said. This that needs to be used to identify that one interesting friendship factor to stop.

Zain:   21:01
So there are many possible different dimension that you might we care about, that you want to French it yourself. And it would also very a lot. Based on whether you're in a very large corporation, you're a start up. You're a podcaster there many different areas that you like, that you'd try to get in order to French teachers up. But I think the core thing that any differentiation is like then the most important type of differentiation that you can have is really just understanding your customer's understanding. What is their burning pain. What is this real driving force that they have? What is the pain of trying to solve that? And if the fact that it's a pain that the trying to solve it means that they haven't found anyone yet who was able to solve it for them, and that's that's a void in their lives. That's a void in there that they need. Thio get filled. If you can identify that pain and come up with a solution to fix it, that's going to be a huge deal. And the solution doesn't even necessarily have to be something that you're the only person who has the solution that that you're doing this for the first time. It could be a solution that is widely known by many people, but it's not necessarily known by your target audience. Or it could be that your target audience wasn't certain that the solution would applied to them. What you acted up in a format and you told them, I guess this is like, specifically designed for you and applies to you, which is where the philosophy of like one of the bosses of needing down you're very specific sub group comes to, which is especially useful when you're trying to first start off with your product. You really want thio carefully. A tiny niche you really can't into their exact needs. Uh, cause you're focusing on just small suburb. Every group has its own variations of slight variations of what they need out of a product. When you focus on one tiny specific niche, you can really focus on their subset of needs or they're they're very particular variant. You can speak to them in a way that, hey, they believe that, Yes, you're what I'm talking to you. You're the person I want to do with my stuff. Oh, which is to say, for example, if you want to have a marketplace for your selling things. There is. EBay is a marketplace. We can still stuff. There is etc. There is Shopify. They're all marketplaces where any individual seller can go and sell stuff and put up their own individual store where they can you where you can find your stuff. But those stores market themselves. Two very different groups of people, their core product offering is all the same are at least you can em on. EBay is a little different, but you could get the same stuff out of it, especially between the shop front and see their. Their core offering is very similar, but etc. Is really markets itself as Hey, we're the place where it's really easy for someone who doesn't know any technology stuff to get started. They even have Avery artsy, crafty, crafty, focused theme going on there. So people who are in the arts and crafts community, Figaro, etc. And it just speaks to them. And they say, Hey, this looks like the place for me and let me go sell my stuff here.

Sandeep:   24:33
Yeah, I just think, if you ask me, what is that one live in sample? What is that? One from a different ship? A gene that I admired on dhe, a Spy's 15. So this is another example before past love cheating car as a software off edge device, it was not like stalked by anyone at all. Say, for example, a cart has bunch off things controlled by software or microprocessors and majority off the big car companies before the mast. Yes, off being evolved from like, totally being hardly like software, my coppers unfold very off move things one more step ahead by making it like on their face, like so they wind car owners to come on the show room to do to fix you up. It's off. Very brooding like, say, maps off quite a car there, needs the carnage, spoke to the shoulder and blocked the maps. There was a software on their device just that it could not have won a big for them by making it on the air up. A present had a huge advantage off fixing and moving things much, much faster than its competition on the camera on sensors and then say fuel efficiency and engine. And there are so many things that is controlled by my compulsory even before Tesla. But it's dust that slavishly friendship itself by totally making it like it's revise big. It's a car. But it was like that because differentiating factor, which fighting a lot less like toe, relight the customer by making their life easy, saying that you don't have a comprehensive national for many things, you just have to wherever you are, just get some painted and you're suddenly say, for example, I remember. Yeah, there was a hurricane, something happened right around 6 to 8 months ago, I'm not sure was in some of the place where there was a lot of people that got stranded on. Wore the air is limited to the part where the battery mileage increased from 50 miles to create. It writes this. It's like software control on dhe, this largest, or they're operated the car to have, like, extended factory mileage, which means people can travel further. We don't have to go anywhere. Let's go. It's like lighting. Estimate doesn't happen on the bank, but still those of the use cases We excuse people. A true feeling off product being probably different. She ate that from existing that the products in the market. That's one I might a lot off differentiating truly test on what's on paper on the market. Dignity.

Zain:   27:31
That's that's really interesting. And now that you mention of them, Tesla has multiple dimension, which Dave really differentiated themselves. I mean, they just the biggest thing. I think we're just the charges that they put all over the country to make it. Even that wasn't that just to make it possible. Toe have electric car, and as your main car, they made it. That thing in reality wasn't even possible to have a look at cars. You made car before that. It would just be a hobby car for the longest time.

Sandeep:   28:03
I think this forcing door discussion number one like you need to have a differentiating factor, which he likes Your customer on second thing is like I was saying and challenging you that differentiating is evolving process on a company in each to keep evolving with modern, more differentiating factor that you're calm, predicted with large labor to catch up. I like to remember one line. It's by Peter Thiel. It is the static book he mentions that competition is for losers on Venus dominate. So it's basically like if you're differentiating and in usually are going to like the so big that there will be no competition for you. It's just that how past you are the light of your customers and fewer metric is the challenge for you in the next face. Your current metric is the challenge for you in the next place. So it becomes like self evolution than complicated your religion.

Zain:   29:03
And when she gets so far ahead of your competition that there are no longer a challenge to you. That's when you become complacent. Intern and IBM.

Sandeep:   29:12
Hopefully, hopefully not that idea, highly possible on everything has a end. Hopefully for Tesla, because I love this land space that Yeah.

Zain:   29:25
Did you see something?

Sandeep:   29:27
No. No, I just wanted to ask you, like you have any other product of company. That concert. It's over the court, Your intention

Zain:   29:40
as as, Ah, I don't know if I can say that so much. I mean, there's a lot of companies that have executed really, really well on the resource is available to them. And I think I mean, the most famous example is just Amazon, where Jeff Bezos original idea was not so much as a I want to build a store that sells books. His original idea was, I want to build an online store that sells everything, which is what I was on this today. But back in the late nineties or mid nineties, he said, Hey, it's It's really expensive to ship stuff everywhere. But what's cheap to ship books and what is hard for people to get books? Very obscure books. So he was really, really good at taking at seeing one of the resources at his disposal and making them really easily available to his customers. And so that was a that was a different station differentiation right there that he offered. He offered people access to staying books that they did not have access to before, which was a huge difference. In fact, if you needed the book, that was the only place where you could go to get it. You can't get more differentiated than that.

Sandeep:   31:01
Pretty, pretty good example. Another thing that comes to my mind perspective, like really could differentiating factor is the instagram and many startups that follow the same path. Just choose one Peter that people really want to do on Make It Jump, for example, taking a picture, sharing a creature That was our good. There were friends. My space There are so many other companies, including Facebook, were no still possible. You take a photo, your photo sharing your friends and there are other things possible in those black contacts. But instead of differentiated itself by adding that feeder and making it so damn simple that you can just take a couple of other patents. Do you like the filter? You're totally modify and you'll be out struck that you take this football, Andi. All we didn't like a photo and couple off button on the differentiated by two seem just one functionally in that people really like sharing the photo and making it so damn simple as possible and attract before anyone use it. And they were like instantly keep it simple was that there are many absent black concept it before. So that's another interesting thing that compliment mind people friendship on after in stagnant that many companies that follow the same path wants that just for mistakes. Also,

Zain:   32:31
right now there is also an anti pattern and attempting differentiation. We're, uh, look where you're attempting to differentiate on an irrelevant vector. Yes, and there's an example came across recently about some company that provided I think it's like cold work day or something. I forget the exact company where it baseball rights Uh, cos we're the way for their employees to do some sort of HR stuff and whatnot. OK, and that software that's s soft product is a pain for employees to use. It's just like it's a huge pay, like its interface is not useful at all. It's just it feels like you're using something from 10 years ago, but it sells really well and are some be tracked, emitted competitors to it, or it's really easy for employees to use it. It wouldn't really d'oh and it goes And it's because why why is that company which such a bad, really bad interface is wise is still doing so well, it's because the rial customers of that company are not the rank and file employees of the Cup of those there, cos the real customers is the HR department. That software gives the HR department all these loaded drafts, all these analytics on a bunch of different things. And the HR department is the department that she was just to buy the software. Yeah, so their decision makers, they're the real customer thehe rest of the employees of the company. They're just the users of the product. But they're not the customer, Absolutely. And if you're trying to differentiate yourself, you have to make sure your friend shooting yourself to your actual customer on a dimension that they care about. Otherwise, it differentiating factor is not really going to be differentiating factor at all.

Sandeep:   34:31
Yeah, being cool is not enough. Having really playing for the right user is the most impactful things. That,

Zain:   34:42
yeah, give me a challenge to figure out who is the right user. That's not always obvious.

Sandeep:   34:47
Yeah, subscription model Onda watch. No content in the flicks and so many examples that keeps running in my mind, and I think we'll be able to speak for wanting to ours. But at this point of time, a distinct ng came to my mind. He talked about product companies and mostly these entities. A company are deeper use right, which is different. She being born all the dimensions. How we could be friendship. What are the important thing is suffering to us. But there is a primary thing that's creating all of it. That's me. Anchorperson. Yeah, that's Vian divisions, a person who's working on things and here, part of a set up as a company with a 15 before the manager, he become manager. There will be reporters to us, and there is, like always changes. Like a food chain outside the actual food said That is a food right. You can't even a CEO of a company. But still there is a port that our investor. So there is always this hierarchy. So how does the different she be successful? If you say a product needs to be different shit, that if they have to be successful and contraction, I think it is very, very applicable for us the individual, the equal to differentiate ourselves to be, like, really successful. I have a job in our life like what do you think about this? And also I would be interested to hear how you think about if you see the yourself you hold some peeps that you could give me and a lovely symbols

Zain:   36:25
s Oh, my first year out of college, my manager told me on our one once he said, Hey, look, Zane, there are three types of employees are three types of employees that don't get fired. Uh, there are the good employees. When they're given a project, they will solve it. That will complete the project as expectant. Those guys are good. That's the baseline, what you expect out of people, and they're they're really good folks. And they will notice problems and stuff. And they will say, Hey, boss and I noticed there's this problem over here. Somebody should fix that. There's the exceptional people. There are people who are going to say, Hey, there's a problem over here. We should fix that And here's how we could do it Cool. And what are you really doing here? Uh, you're identifying again. This goes back to identifying the burning pains of the people. You're saying, Hey, what What is it that my manager cares about? What is it that's going to make a difference to him? Two people above me to my product, And how can I offer this to them? How could I make that a reality? Because your manager, his burning pains, were going to be basically making the product successful. The more successful your product is, the better it is for your manager and the rest of your team.

Sandeep:   37:55
Yeah,

Zain:   37:56
but as the leader of the product, he's going to be most interested in the success of it. And if you can make a solid pitch for hey, this doing actions are projects A, B and C. You will make the product more successful in your have a good, solid reasoning and your persuasive about that, then that is a huge factor is the manager would love to not be the only person who was thinking about how to make a product better. That's more brain right there. If you can multiply that, have two brains or have other people working out of even more brain, that's gonna be you're going to have way better ideas with more people actively thinking about it than one person could possibly have all on their own. What about you have any tips to share?

Sandeep:   38:47
Yeah, that's a very interesting point. You covered many of the things that I feel as a usual. I need to follow people successful and differentiate myself from that. It is also a very interesting book with slumber in the few months ago, it's called as rise. It's a very, very interesting book. Its parts about how to be successful in operates on it might not be very applicable when you're the only one who's starting a company in the static ecosystem. Because there is no one is collaborating with Cooper. Eventually, this is applicable across in war outside work. Some advice. This book actually taught me many things. One is due to better, So basically, when you pick up a mask on, then you get it past doing that really well, actually differentiates you because it might be simpler for us to assume that. Yeah, every individual gets to work and they do better. The truth is, not everyone can be able to deliver a product of world, even seem like he has you as you. So who your capacity on the strike? You do better than study, and eventually you will always be doing it better. I you get the crosscheck part. But if I give something to this person, he's going to get them. That is basically, like the foundational comfort or the advantage you're going to get in your career. Get something and he will deliver in back that particular factors to check them. And second thing is, sure show I look, there are shootings. Sure. Look, is basically like you need to explicitly tell. What do you think about something? Say, for example, you get across. I need explicitly tell how passionate you are. How not so passionately for various reasons. Right on. You need to explicitly inform your in your manager you are a poor management. Basically you express why did something is investing for you. What are you doing so that you are such a school in that product on you get a lot of feedback from being more explicit. Either you're really doing well. You are tracking the right metric. You are aiming for the right girl so you can't feedback that you are moving in the right direction and people know that you're going the right direction. It's not. You get corrected because you might not be a Lenny. You're cool with the higher go right. So by showing what you're doing but showing what you're thinking by being more explicit through your what place, it will make you more and more better and musical for the people and also corrects you to be on the right alignment. You will have at one stage of correcting the bigger chain itself by showing them what is the right. So either case you honored that one, that's for sure. And you are hitting differentiated from just doing things like showing what you do. What you think.

Zain:   42:01
I really strongly agree with that, especially the part about, uh, that not everyone will do as good do it given project as well as everyone else and specifically the projects that we tend to do the best on products that project that I do the best arm are the ones that I personally find the most exciting and I'm most motivated to work on. And what motivates me will be different from what motivates you and the stuff that I find most exciting, most motivating. That's the stuff I'll be most focused on. Released. Inclined to procrastinate on those. I'll be I'll be putting her best self from those projects. Yeah, and in fact, constantly. I just wrote a block coast this morning about this exact topic about being motivated. It was about deep work, and one of the things that you need to be able to do deep work is to be highly motivated on exactly whatever it is that you're working on, if you're finding that you're not motivated about the work that you're doing, uh, that's a strong sign that hey, you should be finding something else to be doing because you just be fighting an uphill struggle. Thio shine on that thing that you're not motivated on

Sandeep:   43:17
yet. And the last point which I was supposed to say it like, how hopeless priorities on, But you need to show you victories and off course to stack. For example. You're getting ready for a meeting. I think that you can't value that. There is no value reason for you yourself. That meeting you should be absolutely trying to say no. And even it can be as symbolized. Like being on time for the meeting, being on thing for the standard, be explicit and then being, like, kind off perfect in What you see is what you do. So these things will eventually lead to a differentiating factor for yourself, where people will start believing you giving you more responsibilities are willing to be vulnerable with you because you can grow higher and higher in part correct only when there are more and more people who are willing to be vulnerable to me. Total fear off marketing test, right? If people are more easy to be level, which means there are more ideas flowing into you outside you and then you become kind of the bouncing ball on the y. Yes, we're not just doing good things for now. You will be one leg, do the ship for the next step. So these three things is what I feel you make a lot of difference in pre differentiate that usually also helping us to grow area as usual. I'm not practicing everything I'm trying to. Yeah,

Zain:   44:57
And then the last two things you said were interesting cause they're both When you talked about, um, being a kind of a sounding board for folks where they feel like you won't be judgment that they can, but they won't be just they can talk to you about it and being consistent with doing what you say. You would do both those things because they share the the theme of being trustworthy. People can't trust you. They can expect they know what they will can expect from you. Yeah, and so if they depend on you for something and they know that it will get done, it's and they will know what things they can't depend on you for. Because you've made that clear front. They say I will not be doing these things. You're being ruthless about rejecting things that you cannot deliver on. Yeah, So even the even that could be a Zen aspect of trustworthiness and dependability. And one person I heard used the word determinism describes exactly clear, very deterministic. And people are not going to be afraid to have critical things based upon you at that point of being dependent on you. Because you have shown that Hey, you are not a risky choice. You're not a risky decision.

Sandeep:   46:09
Yeah, deterministic consistency and easy PC things is what I feel mostly all about differentiating. And it's a product that has a division. He should get a minister. You should be easy going, which is easy for us people to communicate because you work through us to get something done from us. Are to be even able to ask us that what they can do, that they could help us to get something done which is on earthly being deterministic, being consistent and then like saying doing what you say on then, keeping it easy and simple. I covered our in professors as a human. It's like a P A. Like exactly like you said, it's striped. If I think as a product off that strike, I should keep my simple so that other people can access on do kind operation period. Read up daintily, and that is easy. People are going to use me. I will be able to use other people, and together we'll be able to let sassy. That's what going to differentiate. That's

Zain:   47:05
exactly so. I think this is a good stopping point. We had a really good conversation talking about discussing standing out from your product. Standing out with your customers are setting out as an individual within a company

Sandeep:   47:21
thing was a very interesting top it sign on I thoroughly enjoy. And I totally learned a lot from hearing from your perspective, off be differentiated, being optimistic on being defensive, but usually as well,

Zain:   47:37
I think likewise, and I definitely need to check out that book rise. I had useful Rice.

Sandeep:   47:42
All right, let's see Andres. Yes, we need to put a link off that you know, participates

Zain:   47:47
for having to do that.

Sandeep:   47:49
It's a very simple book. It's very easy to be. It's kind of like a notes. So I wish, such as anyone asking me like, What should I be? I don't know any victory. The world is in secret off successive complicated. I would just say that I hate this book and I should thanks lover. Parts of this give me that book many months ago. It's actually change that they usually end up. Not just in what even outside.

Zain:   48:18
Well, thank you very much. We will see you all next time in closing in concluding words.

Sandeep:   48:26
No, it was pretty interesting. I just want to remind our listeners that we have changed over name brand India according to a new name. Thanks to say and we look forward to hear from our prisoners. Want to think about this unit? I personally like a lot and I think it reflects of a vision off this court. Yes, yes. You will hope holdover business. Stick this.

Zain:   48:47
Yes. I hope you enjoyed this ninth episode or first episode of the non intuitive. It's fitting in your perspective

Sandeep:   48:55
by season. See you next week. I hopefully we will also have slowing us. We missed him today

Zain:   49:02
until next time. Take care.

Sandeep:   49:04
Bye.